Interview by Adi Berardini
“Can you ever fall short when you’re longing?” the voice echoes in the expanded film You Can’t Have Honey Without an Onion on view at Forest City Gallery by Rima Sater, a Lebanese-Canadian artist based in London, ON, and Laura Acosta, a Colombian-Canadian artist based in Montreal, Quebec.
While I view the film projected onto the floor with a water tank placed overtop, I feel like I’m peering down over a cliff ledge with midnight blue water surrounding me. As the artists describe, the film is what they’ve coined a piece of troppy sci-fi, with a nostalgic yet futuristic feel; the tropical landscape is often superimposed on the figure so that they become a chameleon to their surroundings. The film looks at feelings of alienation and invisibility, diasporic longing for a place, and the bittersweetness that is inherent in this experience. You Can’t Have Honey Without an Onion also explores the maternal and intergenerational trauma of displacement, a topic that echoes deeply at a time when over 1.5 million Palestinians are facing forced displacement from Gaza and a genocide by Israeli forces.
“No matter how displaced you feel someone is feeling similarly,” the voice in the film rings, at times distorted, with the type of ‘70s music you may hear in an infomercial. Desire is multi-faceted, not solely reserved for a person, but for a place, for a home. As the narrator also states, “There is no pain that lasts a hundred years or a body that can sustain it.”
In this interview, Rima Sater and Laura Acosta discuss their collaboration, the process of working on the film and exhibition You Can’t Have Honey Without an Onion, and the accompanying writing workshop.
What first brought you together to collaborate on this film and exhibition?
Rima: Laura and I have been friends for a very long time, and we first collaborated in 2015.
She was doing a residency at the FOFA Gallery at Concordia and invited me. Long story short, we did this other residency together and we had a sound and performance piece that was about this character that we made up named Iris Breeze. It had a lot of big philosophical questions about this woman daydreaming and similar themes to what we had introduced into this piece as well. I got into this residency in Brazil, and then reached out to Laura and asked if she wanted to come. Then we ended up going together, and it just happened. I [figured] I’d bring some film, and Laura brought some textiles and costuming. We both had things we’d been writing about and wanted to use for something. It came together organically and became this film piece.
And then it wasn’t until we [thought that] maybe we should apply for a show that we figured out how to put it all together. It made sense. Everything just fit together and fell into place so naturally.
Laura: I think Rima and I have an overlapping interest in creating this surreal world out of real life, which is this tendency to want to daydream and have escapist fantasies. I think we both have a similar way that we deal with pain or anxiety, which is through absurdity and humour.
Our friendship is based on this ongoing banter where an image will get so absurd to the point where it’s like just a completely different world from real-life experiences. In our close friendship and being two brown women who grew up with immigrant parents, we have such a similar upbringing and similar experiences of alienation that humor is a way for us to explore all of this through absurdity is where our work overlaps. Even that first collaboration that we did together [had] this tropical feeling. Like how to go on vacation, escapism, and creating grandiose ways of thinking of how to live this tropical luxury life while demonstrating this sort of dissatisfaction with reality, flipping it on its head and making it our own through humor and surrealism.
Rima: A lot of our conversations when we’re together or apart, you could take any of it and turn it into a script. Nothing that we wrote was inauthentic to the things that we were feeling or what we’d say to each other. It’s almost like transcribing a text thread between the two of us. It would be how we make these connections and play on words. We have this kind of like téte a téte thing where one of us says one thing, and then the other person makes a joke out of it based on one word from that thing. Then it just evolves, but it always comes full circle in the end. It’s funny and ridiculous but rooted in sorrow.
The film explores themes of belonging and alienation of foreign bodies referencing sci-fi. Can you speak further about the meaning and inspiration for the film?
Laura: At the time, for some reason, I remember we were at the Covent Garden Market, and we were talking about our mothers and this idea of how there’s this normalized sense of suffering that they have. And that’s where the Arabic saying came about that Rima brought up, “You can’t have honey without an onion.”
Rima: My mom said it one day to me in Arabic very loosely. And I was like, I love that. In Arabic, there are a lot of idioms, but they also play on words of each other and there’s a lot of rhyming. It’s these little cheeky things that I’ve been learning as I grow up as well. And that one just stood out to me so much because it’s so simple. It’s just like, yeah, you can’t have honey without an onion. It makes so much sense.
Our relationship to this matriarchal pain comes through with just being inherently born in the cultures that we’re born in and being women.
Laura: And then there’s the counterpart to it from Colombia that was, “There’s no pain that lasts a hundred years or a body that can sustain it.”
We’re thinking about these sayings a lot and this idea of maternal lineages. And I think we were almost talking about how we have this sorrow that isn’t ours sometimes. Like we were just kind of born with it. Our relationship to this matriarchal pain comes through with just being inherently born in the cultures that we’re born in and being women.
That unfolded into a larger theme of alienation because that’s our situated knowledge, but we want to make work that appeals to all types of experiences. Under the system that we live in, we’re all living with alienation. We’re all so separated and not comfortable with who we are, it’s not made for people like us to be comfortable.
Laura: Then Rima had this residency in Brazil lined up and she invited me to it, and at the time I was playing with sort of reflective textiles, and so we thought, okay, why don’t we speak about the idea of visibility, belonging [and] not belonging, through a visual sort of story, and then obviously, Rima has all the knowledge of capturing image with different formats, so it became a play on where to put these bodies inside these landscapes.
We went to an island in Brazil, so it was all very tropical, in line with what we were talking about before. And then it became this conversation about what bodies are visible, what bodies are invisible, and what it inherently means to be human, to feel alienated without even knowing what you’re alienated from.
Rima: And I think just the word alien lends to the sci-fi theme as well. Sci-fi [films] are so absurd but also incredible since they predict a lot of things. There are so many movies that have predicted certain technologies, so they’re also very modern at the same time as being this sort of strange, otherworldly thing.
We coined a term, “Troppy sci-fi,” which was the genre we decided to put this film under, and with our work in general, it made sense with what we were doing. It had a bit of this otherworldly sort of aspect to it. I think that when we were writing our parts, and we collaborated and put them together, with self-reflection as well, [we thought] where did these emotions come from? Where do these things stem from?
And not to be psychoanalytical, but also just thinking maybe this happened when I was a kid, or this is what I learned, or thinking about things that your parents had gone through and maybe how that imprinted on you and led [and influenced] your experiences and the way that you react to stuff.
Your exhibit is very immersive and references water with the dark blue walls, lighting, and water tank over the film screening. Can you speak more about the symbol of water? It lends itself well to tropical sci-fi, having the water over the film too. Was it difficult logistically?
Rima: It’s the simplest of all the ideas that we had. We really wanted to honor the water because we were on an island, and we were just surrounded by water and there were waterfalls everywhere.
It was just like a very symbolic element to our experience at the residency, so we wanted to make sure that it was part of the piece as well. We were like, “Oh, maybe we’ll do a waterfall wall,” we just had all these ideas. And then one day, I was home, and we were like, “What about like a pool?”
And we [thought] “This is great. Let’s do a pool.” So, she came over and we went into my bathtub and filled it up and took my projector and made sure that it made sense. So then from there, we had this box fabricated and waterproofed when we were in Halifax. And it was so simple otherwise, but so effective. It translates into the film and how there are different perspectives within itself, as well as how people can view the content.
Laura: The water is meant to represent many things, but more and more the piece feels like this daydream that we’ve been trying to describe, even from our first piece with Iris Breeze, this feeling of being so inside your head.
Having everything blue and with water lights and an underwater feeling, I equate it with the subconscious. Even as we’re talking now, it’s making me reflect on our friendship and the importance of female friendships is how much therapy you give to each other, it’s unbelievable. It is like full therapy sessions where your one experience can be dissected into everything your family represents, your entire experience of who you are.
I think more and more about this piece, and the text that Sandi Rankaduwa wrote, which is a gorgeous piece of writing. It took me more to this place that it’s not meant to be an outdoor place, it feels like being inside a daydream or a subconscious state.
Rima: At the Khyber, we both visualized it as being its own thing that you could immerse yourself in and get lost in it too because you have the lights reflecting all around you that emulate the water and then the water within itself. But being there, it was also trying to make it like this calming and reflective experience at the same time, as well as addressing these heavier topics. A lot of people have seen the piece and been like, I feel like I just went through a therapy session, reflecting on their own experiences with the themes that we had.
So having it at FCG (Forest City Gallery) and having it in this very perfect little box, gives it more of that feeling of “I’m in here. I have to be with this, and I have to be with myself, and I have to be with my thoughts.” The more we do it, or the more time that passes, different things stand out. It’s amazing how it’s evolved.
Can you speak more about the writing workshop and what inspired you to do a workshop as well?
Laura: The workshop came about because the Khyber was interested in community engagement. Shout out to the Khyber, they’re doing cool stuff over there and making sure that the community is reflected in what’s happening inside the space and it’s part of everything that’s happening in the space.
They [asked how we would want] to do a community engagement exercise. And we started talking about the process that we have towards creating our work, which starts with this conversation, a banter, and then this production of a score in a way. And that score becomes the starting point for images or for movement or whatever we come up with.
Then we came up with fun exercises for a group of people to write a story together. We also didn’t know what the outcome of that was going to be, which was cool because you get people’s prompts and then see how people explore their personal experiences, but through a playful way and in a group setting.
Rima: The prompts [encourage] you to reflect on your experiences with the themes of alienation, belonging, and grief, anything we cover in our work, then write down a sentence, a word, just anything that comes to mind. Then we just rip it all up and put it into a little hat or bucket anonymously. And then from there, you pick stuff out like this Mad Libs game.
When we did the workshop this time around, because we had two separate groups, we noticed that both of us had done it a little bit differently but still stuck within the same theme. For example, we did like the who, what, where, when, why, and sometimes how. You’d pick something out and then ask everybody, “Where do you think this fits in?” [From there] you write that down and then have everyone describe that and elaborate on it a little bit more. Then we differentiate between sound bite and narration and eventually turn it into something that could be a script.
Everyone loves it because it’s collaborative and writing can be so personal. Even though people were writing very personal things, deconstructing it in a way that was a bit absurd or silly but also very profound, allowed people to enjoy it more and see the different ways in which writing can take forms.
Laura: That’s the beautiful thing about collaboration. When it’s non-hierarchical, there’s no leader. Then you slowly start seeing what role each person takes. Some people speak more, other people like to take a moment and say something when they feel it’s right. And then as the story starts unfolding, you can see it start turning on in their heads, and they start creating more stuff. It’s a cool experience because also we never know what’s going to come out of it.
You Can’t Have Honey Without an Onion was on view at Forest City Gallery from January 6th to February 17th, 2024.